Regarding project Zanaris

[Mike]

For the past month or so, there's been a lot of talk about project Zanaris. For those who are not informed about this, you can visit https://zanaris.runescape.com. Basically, project Zanaris is a platform for community OSRS servers, led by Jagex, where people can customize their own OSRS server, and thereby basically creating a sort of RSPS that is officially tied to OSRS, with all the OSRS content already in there.

This project opens up a big opportunity for RSPS developers to make their own sort of RSPS without having to spend weeks and months and years adding the latest OSRS content (not to mention being legal unlike RSPS now) and instead focusing all their attention on customizing the server. A lot of details are still unknown, and we're not sure how far this customization can go, but it does sound pretty exciting from a developer's point of view.

At this point, it is too early to tell whether we would like to partake in project Zanaris, but I think it is unlikely to happen as it would mean I would have less time I can spend on PkHonor. I have my heart and soul put into this game, and I want to stick to two of my promises that I had made in the past:

• PkHonor will never shut down as long as there is as much as a single person playing it
• There will never be an eco reset. If someone stops playing and come back 20 years from now, they'll find their accounts in exactly the same state in which they left them

That being said, I acknowledge that PkHonor has been lacking in updates and new content for some time. This is largely in part due to the mental health issues that both myself and Rapsey have been battling for the past years. I am now doing much better, but it's important for me to keep things in check and not burn myself out again, so I need to take things slow and pace myself.

I normally don't discuss financials with outsiders, but this one time I'll make an exception, so that you all understand the current situation. As it is, PkHonor brings in just enough money to keep our servers running (no worries, even if the donations run dry, I'll keep the server running from my own savings as I did back in 2010 if needed). However, that also means there is no money left to pay either myself or Rapsey. As a result, I have no choice but to keep taking on assignments a a freelance programmer so that I can pay my bills, and to work on PkHonor in my spare time.

Mind you, I don't care that much about not being paid for my work on this server. But it does mean that I can only do so in my spare time, purely as a hobby as I did back in the early days of the server. I really want to release the RuneLite client and all the newest OSRS content (and some cool custom endgame content of our own), but it's going to take me some time before I can do so.

On the upside, I've decided to take on very few freelance projects the next couple of months, so that I can focus more attention on PkHonor. It does mean I'll have to live off my savings for a bit, but at least I'll be able to bring some updates to this game again without burning myself out by trying to balance it with half a dozen freelance assignments, as I did in the past with all its consequences for my mental health.

[Tezey]

Might aswell keep half an eye on the Zanaris project
Look out for marketing oportunities?

[Lykos]

Project Zanaris is definitely interesting. It is way too early to tell and assume anything, but it's giving me the vibes of little to no customization, they might be out of touch when it comes to what makes an RSPS more favorable to their own flagship game. It will be DoA if they don't nail all the selling points right at the beginning.

There's also two red flags that I don't like... I couldn't find them mentioning anywhere if you need membership to use these community servers, a big reason why people play private servers is so they can experience OSRS membership without paying. The other big red flag is their stance on rules:

"Any rules that are applicable within OSRS will also persist over to Community Servers. While we are aware there may need to be slight adjustments or additional rules added to Community Servers, anything you can’t do in the main game won’t be allowed on these servers."

To me, Project Zanaris looks like a promising way to get new people to play their game. Same reason why it's hard for new players to start getting into other MMOs liked WoW or FF14. It's all just too bloated, way too many things to do all at once with no time to spare. Secluding it all into a small private instance with friends, being able to customize the speeds at which you can progress and learn, this is the main selling point to me. I'll definitely be pulling my friends into one of these community servers when it launches.

[Pk gts]

I think requiring rs membership and enforcing rules against monetization(rwt) and gambling is gonna result in a less players moving from rsps to zanaris

[Brant]

I'm being honest, and this might be a hot take, but even if Project Zanaris only ever comes out with XP rate modifiers, it would always be better than what we could offer. We have spent so much time trying to be exactly like osrs, and yet we are about 4 years behind. Below is a list of just about everything the project Zanaris has that we currently do not have:

Bosses:

Spoiler: show

Scurrius
Deranged Archaeologist
Sarachnis
Revenant Maledictus
Calvarion/Vet'ion
Spindel/Venenatis
Artio/Callisto
Phantom Muspah
Phosani Nightmare
Duke Sucellus/Awaken
The Leviathan/Awaken
The Whisperer/Awaken
Vardovis/Awaken
Obor
Bryophita
Hespori
Grotesque Guardians
Working Kraken/Kraken Cove
Working Thermy/Smoke devil cave
Gauntlet/CG's
Jad challenges
Tempoross
Wintertodt
Zalcano
TOB Challenge Mode
TOA (whole raid)
Huey
Perilous moons
Amoxliatl
Araxxor
Colosseum

Skilling Content:

Spoiler: show

Mining - Motherload Mine, Trahaearn Mine, Shooting Stars, Zalcano, volcanic mine, mining gloves (superior for donator, expert for premium), bone shard mining
Smithing - Giants foundry, Blast furnace
Prayer - Ectofuntus, ensouled heads, ash sanctifier, ectoplasmator, monster heads on the dark altar, shades, offering to ralos
Runecrafting - Ourania altar, scar essence mine, combination runes, guardian of the rift, Zeah runecrafting
Crafting - Birdhousee, splitbark, xerician robe, yak hide, snelms, snakeskin, pottery, glass blowing
Fishing - Aerial Fishing - Barbarian Fishing, fishbowl pet, Tempoross, drift net fishing, fishing trawler, infernal eel
Cooking - Gnome Cooking - Wine making
Firemaking - Balloon Travel, Wintertodt, Pyre Ships, Bow Firemaking, Shades
Woodcutting - Canoes, Woodcutting Guild, ents, forestry, bird nest, sulliuscep
Agility - Brimhaven Agility, Regular courses, Rooftop Agility, Agility Pyramid, Hallowed Seplulcure, Underwater Agility, Agility Short cuts, colossal wyrm
Thieving - Vyre, Elf, Tzhaar-hur, Thievable Chest, Pyramid plunder, Blackjack, Rogues Den, Sorceress Garden, Stealing Artifacts, varlamore thieving
Fletching - battle-staffs
Farming - Farming guild, tithe farm, spirit trees, crystal trees, Redwood trees
Construction - Mahogany Homes, portal nexus, superior garden, obelisk, fairy rings, Construction House room mover, mounted teleports, league hall, pets walk around in poh, superior garden
Hunter - Aerial Fishing, Birdhouse, drift net fishing, fossil island underwater hunting, Herbiboar, Hunter's Guild, Hunter Task
Herblore - Mastering mixology, (pray regen and aggro potion)

• Runelite
• Better security
• A myriad of QoL content
• Every other type of slayer monsters and regular monsters
• Fully working interfaces
• Teleportation systems (fairy rings, spirit trees, etc)
• Every pet obtainable
• Minigames fully functional
• Functional map
• Sound/Music
• QUEST!
• Speedrunning quest

Then what do we have that's unique? Custom whips? Morph ring? Lottery? Zombie minigame? IDK about you, but I would gladly lose those to have everything else that OSRS has with Project Zanaris. Even if it takes a month or two for new content to come to Project Zanaris, it's still years ahead then what we can offer.

@Mike I understand that this server has been your passion since 2009. But besides the legality of Project Zanaris, the myriad of content it can provide, and having to remove the headache of constantly trying to stay caught up with client, cache, and server updates, I think it's something we should consider. And by consider, I mean we should move over to. It isn't confirmed completely, but they said they are 100% on board allowing people to create quests, custom bosses, skills, etc, meaning everything we have to offer will be able to at one point be able to be added into Project Zanaris.

If you decide that you don't want to go to Project Zanaris, I think the biggest thing we have to worry about with PkHonor is what type of direction we want to take and make it stand out from other private servers. Because trying to copy OSRS won't work. I don't want you Mike to withdraw from your savings just to keep this server around.

Project Zanaris is definitely interesting. It is way too early to tell and assume anything, but it's giving me the vibes of little to no customization, they might be out of touch when it comes to what makes an RSPS more favorable to their own flagship game. It will be DoA if they don't nail all the selling points right at the beginning.

Even if it only comes out with xp rates at first, they did say they will eventually add in quest, boss, custom items/npcs support. It'll be something they continually update adding more and more support.

There's also two red flags that I don't like... I couldn't find them mentioning anywhere if you need membership to use these community servers, a big reason why people play private servers is so they can experience OSRS membership without paying. The other big red flag is their stance on rules:

"Any rules that are applicable within OSRS will also persist over to Community Servers. While we are aware there may need to be slight adjustments or additional rules added to Community Servers, anything you can’t do in the main game won’t be allowed on these servers."

I think the membership thing wouldn't be an issue. I know so many people who play private servers and also play the main game. They stated that you would not need to have a separate account meaning those who already play the main game can play Project Zanaris. As for the rules, We already don't support RWting anyway. Gambling is more of a questionable discussion, but I don't think gambling should have been in OSRS to begin with.


Regardless of what Mike decides, I will probably make a server on Project Zanaris. It's been something I have wanted to do since 2017 when I first learned how to program. I'd love to work on a server together with Mike and possibly @Raj. I couldn't imagine what we could come together and create if we didn't have to worry about constantly trying to keep up with OSRS updates and we could just simply create our custom and unique ideas. We could create endgame bosses with unique mechanics. We could give Morph ring the very much-needed rework that it needs. I could create a unique quest chain that I've always wanted to do with unique rewards. The biggest thing is I don't want to compete against Pkhonor in terms of drawing players away from it. Hence why it would be so great if we could all come together and work together on it.

Sorry, this is a massive post. I've been thinking about this for such a long time, ever since I saw the question on the yearly survey. I know Project Zanaris is still about a year away from being released, but it never hurts to plan the future.

[Patel]

I'm being honest, and this might be a hot take, but even if Project Zanaris only ever comes out with XP rate modifiers, it would always be better than what we could offer. We have spent so much time trying to be exactly like osrs

Listen, I know the last thing you guys want is a wrench in the never ending quest to match OSRS (/s). But the game is basically the most accessible MMO out there with a community that continues to grow, and revenue that doesn't stop. It's not feasible to have OSRS-matching be a goal forever

I think revisiting the motivations behind things like titan events is not a bad idea. I discussed this in Discord but imagine a server where you can place as another race, maybe you start off in Keldagrim as a dwarf, in Zanaris as a fairy, or in Yubiusk as a Goblin. We already have transform scrolls - imagine a highly developed version of that where you can still skill but things are a little different. Maybe as an aviansie you never need to pray melee or something, and can still interact with the rest of the game. Maybe you have unique ways of using skills that human players can't. The ideas are boundless but provide a fresh take on RSPS outside of playing catchup with OSRS.

Whatever it is, I just feel like the list of things to do to catch up to OSRS will never get shorter. And I think it's not great for PkHonor as an RSPS with a unique identity to have to strive for that. Sure, maybe there's some major content that people are just begging for and which eventually gets added. But I think you guys are all smart people with creative flare that can recapture the essence of RSPS.

Also, @Mike I reached out on mattermost but I may not see your reply. What kind of budget does PkHonor need to stay afloat? I don't think there's anything wrong with you pouring yourself into this, but life's tough rn and I want to help a little once I start new work.

Off topic: I haven't forgotten about the graphic design competition Life is just busy af right now.

[Jayden]

I'm being honest, and this might be a hot take, but even if Project Zanaris only ever comes out with XP rate modifiers, it would always be better than what we could offer. We have spent so much time trying to be exactly like osrs, and yet we are about 4 years behind. Below is a list of just about everything the project Zanaris has that we currently do not have:

Here's a genuine question, what are some "quick" codeable things you think we could implement that'd help us try regain some edge, obviously taking into account mike's mental health so keeping the code to something that doesn't take too much time to implement.
Maybe @Raj could also have a say to see what would gain edge on a development side of things that would require little effort.

[Brant]

I'm being honest, and this might be a hot take, but even if Project Zanaris only ever comes out with XP rate modifiers, it would always be better than what we could offer. We have spent so much time trying to be exactly like osrs, and yet we are about 4 years behind. Below is a list of just about everything the project Zanaris has that we currently do not have:

Here's a genuine question, what are some "quick" codeable things you think we could implement that'd help us try regain some edge, obviously taking into account mike's mental health so keeping the code to something that doesn't take too much time to implement.
Maybe @Raj could also have a say to see what would gain edge on a development side of things that would require little effort.

I think that's part of our problem, there isn't anything that we could do to ever catch up with with any of the top 20 rsps on runelocus. Just about every rsps out there has Runelite, ToA Gambling, or other more unique content.

The closest thing that we could do to help get an 'edge' is finish the runelite client that I worked on, but even that is still leagues behind other rsps's.

I think revisiting the motivations behind things like titan events is not a bad idea. I discussed this in Discord but imagine a server where you can place as another race, maybe you start off in Keldagrim as a dwarf, in Zanaris as a fairy, or in Yubiusk as a Goblin. We already have transform scrolls - imagine a highly developed version of that where you can still skill but things are a little different. Maybe as an aviansie you never need to pray melee or something, and can still interact with the rest of the game. Maybe you have unique ways of using skills that human players can't. The ideas are boundless but provide a fresh take on RSPS outside of playing catchup with OSRS.

I remember you talking about that in discord, and I absolutely love that idea. My original plan when I first learned how to program was to create a rpg type rsps where you would be one of the 4 main gods follower, Saradomin, Bandos, Zammy, or Armadyl, and it would take place during the actual gwd time period. You'd go around helping out the battle and stuff like that, collecting resources etc. We could develop quest as a means for a storyline. If I can find my notes I had from when I first created them, I'll bring them up in a separate idea post. I might use the combat upgrading system that OSRS is gonna use for Raging echos as a base for that system.

Whatever it is, I just feel like the list of things to do to catch up to OSRS will never get shorter. And I think it's not great for PkHonor as an RSPS with a unique identity to have to strive for that. Sure, maybe there's some major content that people are just begging for and which eventually gets added. But I think you guys are all smart people with creative flare that can recapture the essence of RSPS.

Hence why I think porting over to Project Zanaris is the best course of action. We would always stay caught up to date with the latest regions, bosses, content, and qol features plus legality reasons. (I know it took us over a year to find a single client that had the new animation system that Jagex uses for dt2 and ToA bosses, and I was very fortunate to find it.) Jagex would allow us to monetize our work so we can still receive revenue to help cover the cost of the server.

Ultimately, the server has to head in a new direction. Our 40 player average compared to other servers is laughably low. We can't keep players to stay for the long term, and it's ever harder to find new players seeing as other servers have more content. From what I see, the majority of people that play are veterans who have stayed loyal over so many years. We have to reach out to new players, and this Project Zanaris is probably our best opportunity. Imagine if we had an entire plan set out, day of release, how many people that would draw in.

The one thing that always made us unique was the morph ring in my opinion. Playing as an NPC has so much potential. We can either go in that direction, or continue down the path we are on already.

[Kenneth]

The one thing that always made us unique was the morph ring in my opinion. Playing as an NPC has so much potential. We can either go in that direction, or continue down the path we are on already.

I don't think morph ring is very exciting at all. What you are proposing with playing as different npcs and playing under the different gods of the god wars is a cool idea but it sounds like a completely different server. Morph ring feels like an outdated gimmick, the idea of morph realm itself being a 2nd world would be great but it has almost no utilization when your stats become reduced and you cant enter the wilderness. If Project Zanaris has enough capability to import PKH's unique player progression and charm, I'd send it.

[Ashton]

I have my heart and soul put into this game, and I want to stick to two of my promises that I had made in the past:

• PkHonor will never shut down as long as there is as much as a single person playing it
• There will never be an eco reset. If someone stops playing and come back 20 years from now, they'll find their accounts in exactly the same state in which they left them

I'll be in support of whatever decision making is made, as long as it does not interfere with your two promises.