Group Ironman is coming, we need your input!

[Mvpranger]

Hi all

Over the last week we have been busy with the development of Group Ironman and Hardcore Group Ironman. We are quite far already and the basics are there and are currently being tested.

Group creation/invites, trading amongst team members, shared loot mechanic and the hardcore shared life mechanic are working, the main thing left are some complicated DB changes which need to be made so that we can have this new game mode and making sure each rank has the right rights in game.

There are 4 open points which are core to the (HC)GIM game mode, which don't have an obvious "right" or "wrong" answer. What gets decided on how we as PkHonor want to implement it will affect everyone who decides to play the game mode. So we'd rather ask than guess ourselves.

For the people who are not familiar with Group Ironman, here is how it works:

• Team up with up to 4 others as a Group Ironman, you can freely trade items between group members, while still playing by all the normal Ironman restrictions with everyone outside your group.

• Hardcore Group Ironman works the same way, but instead of each player having their own single life, the whole group shares a pool of lives.

The 4 open points are as follows:

• Life pool: How many shared lives should a Hardcore Group Ironman group get?

• Group status: What should happen to your Group Ironman status when you leave or get kicked?

• Account/items: What should happen to your account/items when you leave or get kicked?

• Rejoining: If you keep your Group Ironman status after leaving/being kicked (option 2A), what are the rules for joining a group again?
  (Note: this question only applies if question 2 lands on option A. If question 2 lands on B, demotion, there's no group status left to rejoin.)


#MPkHGA

[Iron adam]

The whole joining/leaving groups always felt weird to me. I don't like that OSRS did it this way, but idk if I'm in the majority/minority on this. I think that once a group is established, there should be no changing it. The life pool should be equal to the amount in the group. Players should be allowed to join/leave groups at all. If we did allow this, then a full wipe of ALL ACCOUNTS IN THE GROUP is the only way to keep it fair for other groups and regular ironmen. Otherwise, you could have a 5 man group obtain 5 accounts worth of stuff, then either transfer it out of the group, or kick 3 accounts and make it look like an insane 2 man group.

[Iron podge]

This is unrelated and probably obvious but I just want to make sure.... GIM should be a "step down" from normal Irons, next closest thing to being a normal player. I believe players should not be able to convert to a regular iron/HC account.

Separate GIM high scores of course.

However I do like the idea of being able to downgrade/change a normal Iron/HC Iron account into a GIM. This makes good use of old/unused ironman accounts (maybe HC that have died). They would accept their items becoming added to the shared bank.

If you're taking items from a player, kicking someone from a group should be a voting system initiated by the leader, not just a leader kicking whoever they want. Maybe make it time out, if not voted down in a certain timeframe by other members, the leader can force kick. After a lot of time investment I wouldn't allow a single person to kick and effectively steal attained items.

Also, will joining a GIM be IP locked from only one unique IP per group? Example.... will I be able to make 4 GIM and just farm shit with iron benefits pooling from their single bank? I'm okay with either tbh... just wondering. It will add a whole different dynamic to the server if its open to do what you want.

The whole joining/leaving groups always felt weird to me. I don't like that OSRS did it this way, but idk if I'm in the majority/minority on this. I think that once a group is established, there should be no changing it. The life pool should be equal to the amount in the group. Players should be allowed to join/leave groups at all. If we did allow this, then a full wipe of ALL ACCOUNTS IN THE GROUP is the only way to keep it fair for other groups and regular ironmen. Otherwise, you could have a 5 man group obtain 5 accounts worth of stuff, then either transfer it out of the group, or kick 3 accounts and make it look like an insane 2 man group.

I like the ability to leave/join simply because of the issue with players going inactive. Imagine you put months/years into a group and you become the only one active.

[Will be ok2]

This is massive!!!

[Will be ok2]

The whole joining/leaving groups always felt weird to me. I don't like that OSRS did it this way, but idk if I'm in the majority/minority on this. I think that once a group is established, there should be no changing it. The life pool should be equal to the amount in the group. Players should be allowed to join/leave groups at all. If we did allow this, then a full wipe of ALL ACCOUNTS IN THE GROUP is the only way to keep it fair for other groups and regular ironmen. Otherwise, you could have a 5 man group obtain 5 accounts worth of stuff, then either transfer it out of the group, or kick 3 accounts and make it look like an insane 2 man group.

I agree with Adam.

[Kenneth]

The whole joining/leaving groups always felt weird to me. I don't like that OSRS did it this way, but idk if I'm in the majority/minority on this. I think that once a group is established, there should be no changing it. The life pool should be equal to the amount in the group. Players should be allowed to join/leave groups at all. If we did allow this, then a full wipe of ALL ACCOUNTS IN THE GROUP is the only way to keep it fair for other groups and regular ironmen. Otherwise, you could have a 5 man group obtain 5 accounts worth of stuff, then either transfer it out of the group, or kick 3 accounts and make it look like an insane 2 man group.

This is exactly why green helms exist "ranked and unranked" the only members that should be allowed to join an established ranked group is a fresh lv 3. Osrs also has trade restrictions on the new accounts that join by only allowing a set amount of gp to be withdrawn in the shared chest. This acts as a fail safe to keep people from stealing things like tbows. I'm playing a GIM on oldschool right now and honestly I think they have got the perfect framework already established. People stop playing, take breaks, and just flat out give up. Doesn't feel right to wipe the players who want to keep playing when you could bring in a person on a fresh lv 3 account who wants to play and continue the group.

[Iron adam]

The whole joining/leaving groups always felt weird to me. I don't like that OSRS did it this way, but idk if I'm in the majority/minority on this. I think that once a group is established, there should be no changing it. The life pool should be equal to the amount in the group. Players should be allowed to join/leave groups at all. If we did allow this, then a full wipe of ALL ACCOUNTS IN THE GROUP is the only way to keep it fair for other groups and regular ironmen. Otherwise, you could have a 5 man group obtain 5 accounts worth of stuff, then either transfer it out of the group, or kick 3 accounts and make it look like an insane 2 man group.

This is exactly why green helms exist "ranked and unranked" the only members that should be allowed to join an established ranked group is a fresh lv 3. Osrs also has trade restrictions on the new accounts that join by only allowing a set amount of gp to be withdrawn in the shared chest. This acts as a fail safe to keep people from stealing things like tbows. I'm playing a GIM on oldschool right now and honestly I think they have got the perfect framework already established. People stop playing, take breaks, and just flat out give up. Doesn't feel right to wipe the players who want to keep playing when you could bring in a person on a fresh lv 3 account who wants to play and continue the group.

Yeah that makes sense. If we allow all the leaving and joining, then we would need that same ranked/unranked system. I am not very informed on how it all works on OSRS, so my opinions/statements shouldn't carry as much weight as someone who is involved.

It looks like OSRS has significantly more restrictions/nuances in place that make the joining/leaving aspect possible without ruining the integrity of any game mode. If we can match all of these restrictions, then that is ideal. Otherwise, I think a full wipe of accounts leaving/joining is the only way to preserve integrity. https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Group_Ironman_Mode